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Dnr Stings Without Permission To Be On Private Land


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#1 Lobo

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 03:16 PM

Just dropping this one out there for some of the knowledgeable members out there..

 

If DNR sets up a sting at night, on private land WITHOUT getting the permission of owners... Within the legal discharge distances (basically in persons' "Residential area", or lawn approx.) for even a shotgun... After legal shooting light long past.... Like say oh, I don't know.. 9 pm at night or so, and calling like an endangered mainland cow moose in heat.... 

 

The question is this... Can the phone be picked up and the RCMP be called on them (DNR) for harassment and trespassing on private residential property if it happens more than once?? This has happened already just the once that I know of to a guy... IF charges are possible for trespassing and harassment, this person says they guarantee they will follow through with any charges they can get laid.. Any thoughts????     


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#2 linnie

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 03:40 PM

I don`t know the legalities of it but it sounds like there is a reason they are there.


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Don't bite the hand that feeds you


#3 Waye Out There

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 04:07 PM

I would have to look at the exact regulation but I believe they can access any property at any time as long as it is in conjunction with their job. Of course the RCMP could be called but I doubt any crown prosecutor would proceed with any charges.
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#4 Lobo

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 04:37 PM

I'm asking cause I know they aren't all powerful in the legal dept. They do have some restrictions put on them, I had thought I heard of this type of thing before with the trespassing regs.. Like when the owner/occupier or rep tells a person or group to leave.. If they don't comply then the RCMP can be called then they are removed regardless of the who. 


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#5 alpo

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:12 PM

Is the owner/occupier of the property the target of the sting operation ?  Are they being harassed or baited ?


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#6 Lobo

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:19 PM

I would say it's a "bait and see" operation from what was told.. 


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#7 rogerb

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:46 PM

Based only on what you have said, the land owner would be well with in his rights to ask them to leave. Should they not leave and they do not have a warrant , the RCMP could be called to remove them.


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#8 Waye Out There

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:58 PM

I'm asking cause I know they aren't all powerful in the legal dept. They do have some restrictions put on them, I had thought I heard of this type of thing before with the trespassing regs.. Like when the owner/occupier or rep tells a person or group to leave.. If they don't comply then the RCMP can be called then they are removed regardless of the who.


You can call the RCMP all you want if the person or group is authorized to be there then the RCMP can not make them move. If DNR is on the property doing their job they are there legally and cannot be made to leave. Remember that anywhere outside a building in NS is considered to be wildlife habitat and this is why only the minister of Natural resources can designate a property as "No Hunting". The same minister can also give permission to discharge any firearm anywhere. The right to give permission to discharge a firearm is usually handed down to the local office level. That is why when you get a nuisance wildlife permit DNR can give you authorization to use a firearm inside the normal discharge distances and out side normal hunting seasons.
If it is a sting operation set up by DNR you can be pretty sure what they are doing has been approved, otherwise even if they catch someone they run a high risk of having the charges thrown out of court if they haven't followed proper procedure. More often than not these operations are joint DNR / RCMP operations anyway.
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#9 KPR

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 06:01 PM

http://www.gov.ns.ca.../trespass_2.pdf

 

Scroll down to page five.....


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#10 rogerb

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 06:08 PM

You can call the RCMP all you want if the person or group is authorized to be there then the RCMP can not make them move. If DNR is on the property doing their job they are there legally and cannot be made to leave. Remember that anywhere outside a building in NS is considered to be wildlife habitat and this is why only the minister of Natural resources can designate a property as "No Hunting". The same minister can also give permission to discharge any firearm anywhere. The right to give permission to discharge a firearm is usually handed down to the local office level. That is why when you get a nuisance wildlife permit DNR can give you authorization to use a firearm inside the normal discharge distances and out side normal hunting seasons.
If it is a sting operation set up by DNR you can be pretty sure what they are doing has been approved, otherwise even if they catch someone they run a high risk of having the charges thrown out of court if they haven't followed proper procedure. More often than not these operations are joint DNR / RCMP operations anyway.

 

Have to disagree here, all peace officers have to abide by Canadian charter of rights, they need reasonable grounds to believe an offence is being committed before poking around a residential property. Other than that like any peace officer, they can come directly to your door, ask you what they want and that's it. The act that allows for DNR staff to be on your property is for reg staff, not peace officers. You should know provincial acts cant override federal law.


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#11 Waye Out There

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 06:52 PM

Have to disagree here, all peace officers have to abide by Canadian charter of rights, they need reasonable grounds to believe an offence is being committed before poking around a residential property. Other than that like any peace officer, they can come directly to your door, ask you what they want and that's it. The act that allows for DNR staff to be on your property is for reg staff, not peace officers. You should know provincial acts cant override federal law.

You can disagree if you want but DNR employees do not anyone's permission to access your property while doing their job. No need for any offence to have been committed. For example last winter we had quite a few mangy coyotes being reported. Once we got some fresh snow DNR employees(wildlife tech and enforcement officers) tracked down and killed several of these mangy animals. They did not need any permission from anyone to access their property or to discharge a firearm. I agree that if they were conducting an investigation and acting as a peace officer then they would have to follow normal regs.
Like I said before if they were conducting a sting operation I am sure what ever permission they required would have been gotten rather than risk the operation

I know exactly how provincial / federal regulations are "supposed" to work but there are often loop holes that are open to interpretation. lol
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#12 troutman

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 06:59 PM

The wildlife Act talks about what they can do with and without a warrant. I cannot post it from my phone but check out the Act starting Secrion 93.

It appears to cover situations like WOT described as reasonable grounds would have existed. In terms of a sting, not sure about that.
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#13 KPR

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 07:11 PM

Arrest without warrant

93 A conservation officer may arrest without a warrant a person whom

(a) the conservation officer finds committing an offence pursuant to the Act or the regulations; or

(B)on reasonable and probable grounds the conservation officer believes is committing or has recently committed an offence pursuant to this Act or the regulations. R.S., c. 504, s. 93.

Search with warrant

94 Every conservation officer who has reasonable and probable grounds to believe a firearm or bow, wildlife or part thereof or any other item is being held or possessed in contravention of this Act or the regulations may, with a search warrant,

(a) enter and search any residence, camp or other structure; and

(B)seize such articles as may be found in contravention of the Act or the regulations. R.S., c. 504, s. 94.

Search without warrant

95 Every conservation officer who has reasonable and probable grounds to believe a firearm or bow, wildlife or part thereof or any other item is being possessed or held in contravention of this Act or the regulations may, without a warrant,

(a) stop, enter and search any air, land or water vehicle or vessel or conveyance of any other description for evidence of a violation pursuant to this Act or the regulations; or

(b )  open and inspect any box, bag, parcel, barrel, container or other receptacle. R.S., c. 504, s. 95.

Liability for trespass

96 A conservation officer or employee of the Department, acting in the discharge of the person's duties pursuant to this Act or the regulations, and any person assisting the conservation officer or employee, may enter upon any lands without being liable for trespass, but the person is not exempted from liability for actual damage caused by such entry. 2001, c. 46, s. 8.

Seizure by conservation officer

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#14 troutman

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 07:12 PM

Thanks KPR. I really appreciate all the winks too.
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#15 KPR

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 07:17 PM

Winks??..... B)


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#16 troutman

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 07:20 PM

Further to WOT's example, section 4a of the regulations allow the minister to waive the requirements of the act to allow conservation officers to carry out their duties. That is where they would likely get the authority to enter property and ignore the discharge regulations.
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#17 Trapper Gary

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 08:49 PM

If its a sting operation how come we all know about it? Thats not usually how they work .


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When non members do web searches on subjects, some times your opion posted on this site gets noticed, and can give another perspective !

#18 rogerb

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 10:16 PM

Arrest and search with out a warrant both require reasonable and probable grounds to believe an offence or violation has been committed. Every thing done by a peace offer is governed by that, with the only exception of "examinations at border crossings".


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#19 KPR

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 12:55 AM

Given the scenario from the OP they suspect someone is going to commit an offence...then...they can be arrested.

According to the acts they can

 

 

enter upon any lands without being liable for trespass,

 

 

A conservation officer may arrest without a warrant a person whom

(a) the conservation officer finds committing an offence pursuant to the Act or the regulations;

 

They can setup Bambi anywhere they want.

They just leave it up to the poacher to get themselves arrested.

Would be harassment to setup in view of a suspected poacher?

I don't think,they don't know who's going to poach until they pull the trigger.


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#20 bea

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 05:03 AM

99.9% of the time Id welcome any act of enforcement lol....the only time is if (for small town politics/personal conflicts etc)  I would oppose it is if they didnt have any reasonable grounds and I thought they were just harrassing me.....but like i say....I'd welcome them on my property anytime for the most part.


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