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#21 Mira Trapper

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 09:01 AM

Hi CT:
While they were being fed they did start to den up in a drain pipe right behind my place but are gone now.That is about a 1/4 mile or more however from where this attack took place.No moose or deer to keep them fed in town here and rabbits are a rare site
I didnot see anything that looked like a den when I was there the other day but could have walked right by it also with all the sign around.
What bothered me more was the comment of the two waiting for the one that attacked back by the tree line. I have never witnessed it but have heard stories of lone coyotes drawing dogs back into the woods where the pack was waiting to kill them.

The way I see it say this lady was feeding them for three years tossing out meat twice a week as she said.There are coyotes behind me that probally never had to hunt and since the day they were born got fed from hand outs.
Hands out gone about 5 weeks and now they are going after anything they can. That is my fear.I know I had to move my green bin up next to the house in the past two weeks from being knocked over every night and it was down back for years.
Here is a pic of one of the pack that my daughter took in the back yard a few weeks ago.That would be about a 100 yard shot off my rear deck. :)
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Great Photo. Clear and concise with an interesting backdrop. You can do anything with a stuffed animal these days. Just kidding.

Really nice wildlife shot.
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#22 nomad

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 09:38 AM

You have to figure the green bin composting program in CBRM is playing a large part in bringing coyotes into suburban and urban areas.There are other factors as well,but this is one example of a great idea with a major drawback.They have us surrounded here in Lingan!
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#23 Mira Trapper

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 12:00 PM

Been surrounded for years out here in Mira. The Federal Government has also contributed greatly to my Coyote problems. They would not allow trapping and hunting in Louisbourg Park area. Thus the overflow hit my seven hundred acres with a vengeance. I hold the Feds responsibl;e for allowing the coyotes the run of the land in allowing them to breed and reach maturity with their preservationist philosphy . I Have shot a lot of coyotes out of my bedroom window as the overflow of Park Coyotes fans out. Have had doubles in traps on the hill behind my house. Used to have twenty to thirty deer in our fields during late summer. Folks used to come from as far away as Lingan watch the deer in our fields to their families. Over the last several years I have seen nada deer in prime Mira River deer country that has been decimated by jackers and coyotes. The worse impact was the coyote but the jackers should be really ashamed of themselves because they SHOULD know better. Having got that off my chest it is still the coyote which is keeping our deer herd down despite open winters where they should have thrived.
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#24 3macs1

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 12:33 PM

Great Photo. Clear and concise with an interesting backdrop. You can do anything with a stuffed animal these days. Just kidding.

Really nice wildlife shot.

That was taken by my 17 year old daughter in our back yard. I have had quite a few mounts done over the years but would not waste a penny getting a coyote done.He is alive and real and here is the rest of the back drop. He was standing right at the corner of the dirt track when she took it.It is to the point here and has been for a few years that I am the only one that will go into my back yard in the nights with the dogs since the girls have had too many coyote encounters and are scared of them.
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#25 3macs1

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 12:47 PM

Been surrounded for years out here in Mira. The Federal Government has also contributed greatly to my Coyote problems. They would not allow trapping and hunting in Louisbourg Park area. Thus the overflow hit my seven hundred acres with a vengeance. I hold the Feds responsibl;e for allowing the coyotes the run of the land in allowing them to breed and reach maturity with their preservationist philosphy . I Have shot a lot of coyotes out of my bedroom window as the overflow of Park Coyotes fans out. Have had doubles in traps on the hill behind my house. Used to have twenty to thirty deer in our fields during late summer. Folks used to come from as far away as Lingan watch the deer in our fields to their families. Over the last several years I have seen nada deer in prime Mira River deer country that has been decimated by jackers and coyotes. The worse impact was the coyote but the jackers should be really ashamed of themselves because they SHOULD know better. Having got that off my chest it is still the coyote which is keeping our deer herd down despite open winters where they should have thrived.



Well good to see I am not the only one left here that thinks the coyote is mainly responsible for cleaning out our deer.In the 80's I hunted with two guys from Louisbourg and spent a ton of time just outside the park survey lines.Like you said deer were everywhere. This time of year it would be nothing to count 50 plus eating on the shore.Last time over I think there was two.
Jackers I don't think even played a role, there were 10 times the amount of jackers back then taking over 100 deer each some of them yet the herd kept growing and growing, year after year.Be nothing to hear many shots ring out in the middle of the night. Winters, we have not seen a hard winter here in years compared to what we had in the 80's.
So less jackers, milder weather, no land developement, no shots in the night and lots of feed and water but no deer.Like I said many times I have had them behind me since the day I moved in and this year once again nothing.Sounds a lot like your place.
Or the deer all moved to the mainland looking for work with the rest of the cape bretoners :lol: take care
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#26 wibskey

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 05:29 PM

Well good to see I am not the only one left here that thinks the coyote is mainly responsible for cleaning out our deer.In the 80's I hunted with two guys from Louisbourg and spent a ton of time just outside the park survey lines.Like you said deer were everywhere. This time of year it would be nothing to count 50 plus eating on the shore.Last time over I think there was two.
Jackers I don't think even played a role, there were 10 times the amount of jackers back then taking over 100 deer each some of them yet the herd kept growing and growing, year after year.Be nothing to hear many shots ring out in the middle of the night. Winters, we have not seen a hard winter here in years compared to what we had in the 80's.
So less jackers, milder weather, no land developement, no shots in the night and lots of feed and water but no deer.Like I said many times I have had them behind me since the day I moved in and this year once again nothing.Sounds a lot like your place.
Or the deer all moved to the mainland looking for work with the rest of the cape bretoners :lol: take care


There's no doubt the coyotes are keeping the population from taking off as it has in the past, but the real culprit was over population. The heard crashed just as hard in the '50s long before there were any coyotes in NS. One of the major reasons for the crash in 1987 was "Hunters did not want to chance an overharvest which might, they thought, reduce their chances for next year. regulations were not changed, the population continued to boom for just about the exact number of years it had boomed in the 1950s."

So hunters that thought that it's normal to see deer around every corner didn't listen to DNR when they told them the hunting pressure should increase. Hunters know better than biologists that just sit behind desks anyway. The bust came hard and coyotes showed up around the same time. Coyotes arriving earlier might have actually helped prevent it.

Here's the article.

Here's a couple of quotes that stand out: Being human, hunters of the time still remember that short boom period as the good old days of deer hunting. Stories are still told about "deer in every back yard", "herds of deer in the pasture", "everybody getting their deer", "more deer then than at any other time in Nova Scotia".

and...

Unfortunately, despite the wishes of hunter groups, those periodic booms do not represent the sustainable Nova Scotia deer herd. We are faced with the reality of a fair deer environment which will support a fair deer population over time and which will allow occasional short population booms during periods of favourable winters.

You know what the saddest thing about this is though? If the population took off again and DNR recommended culling, deer hunters would ignore the history (again) and be up in arms.
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#27 Mira Trapper

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 06:17 PM

With the open winters & the clear cutting of by-gone years plus the dead under growth in Cape Breton from bud worm die-offs (much more nutrient rich lichen in those dead under growth). This deer crash is nothing like the one before it. Increase predation is the main factor as far as I am concerned. There is lots of ideal new growth to support the deer herds and the open winters cement that ability to thrive over the last two decades.
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#28 Trapper Gary

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 09:18 PM

With the open winters & the clear cutting of by-gone years plus the dead under growth in Cape Breton from bud worm die-offs (much more nutrient rich lichen in those dead under growth). This deer crash is nothing like the one before it. Increase predation is the main factor as far as I am concerned. There is lots of ideal new growth to support the deer herds and the open winters cement that ability to thrive over the last two decades.


I think you have it right. There has been lots of cutting over past historcial years as well, even if done with a cross cut and an axe.

Also take note that when deer populations dropped, the government did not hesitate to hammer one predator witha bounty-Nova Scotia bob cats. Hunters and trappers were paid $6.00 a snout.
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#29 Mira Trapper

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 10:16 PM

I think you have it right. There has been lots of cutting over past historcial years as well, even if done with a cross cut and an axe.

Also take note that when deer populations dropped, the government did not hesitate to hammer one predator witha bounty-Nova Scotia bob cats. Hunters and trappers were paid $6.00 a snout.



And the DNR had to put a limit on bobcats since the 80ies because their numbers were shrinking. I love cat snaring & trapping but had to change from limitless hunt for Bobcats down to 5. They certainly were not the culprit nor were the open winters in demise of deer. Coyotes chasing running deer onto ice had a major impact where I live. Even the biggest & healthiest buck has no chance as they break their pelvic bone or Breast bones trying to escape coyotes around our river and lake systems. Another factor is the coyote is relentless in harrassing the deer over the winter months so that the surviving deer enter the spring in really poor shape with not much bone marrow fat reserves. The coyote had a major impact on the demise of our deer herds.
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#30 wibskey

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 07:37 AM

Also take note that when deer populations dropped, the government did not hesitate to hammer one predator witha bounty-Nova Scotia bob cats. Hunters and trappers were paid $6.00 a snout.


Yeah because then just as now, people needed a scapegoat to make them feel better about their poor management decisions. Deer hunters dream about the good old days and talk about it as though it should be the norm as far as our deer herd goes. They just can't accept the fact that it was a VERY unhealthy number of deer.
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#31 wibskey

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 07:47 AM

And the DNR had to put a limit on bobcats since the 80ies because their numbers were shrinking. I love cat snaring & trapping but had to change from limitless hunt for Bobcats down to 5. They certainly were not the culprit nor were the open winters in demise of deer. Coyotes chasing running deer onto ice had a major impact where I live. Even the biggest & healthiest buck has no chance as they break their pelvic bone or Breast bones trying to escape coyotes around our river and lake systems. Another factor is the coyote is relentless in harrassing the deer over the winter months so that the surviving deer enter the spring in really poor shape with not much bone marrow fat reserves. The coyote had a major impact on the demise of our deer herds.


Coyotes were taking about 9% of the deer herd in the study areas in CB. The study also showed that the deer on the island are now much healthier than they were before the crash/coyotes. So I guess that relentless harassing is paying off.
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#32 3macs1

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 07:57 AM

Yeah because then just as now, people needed a scapegoat to make them feel better about their poor management decisions. Deer hunters dream about the good old days and talk about it as though it should be the norm as far as our deer herd goes. They just can't accept the fact that it was a VERY unhealthy number of deer.

Yes sir they were unhealthy . That is why we would have to cut 3"-4" of fat off their backs before butchering every year.Those years the coyotes were tearing them apart for sport and not even eating them. One lake we visit had over 40 killed alone on the ice one winter and 5 in one day of which a few bites of the stomach was taken , two not even touched and the rest left for the crows.
There was a report on that also at the time about the coyotes killing them for sport but that seems to be forgotten.
Since you love reports so much find the one where they sprayed the pole lines here for brush control to find out later what they used was poison to some animals deer included.That spray was not used on the mainland. HUMMMMMMM. Friend in johnstown who worked in the woods at the time still talks about all the deer dead he found the following spring after the spraying.

Bottom line is we can support right now double what we have maybe triple but that is not going to happen anytime soon.

Glads some dnr people are starting to clue in even if it is state side.Don't blame the NS hunter for what is taking place here. It was one of our local DNR experts that told the lady here on my street to feed them to protect her dog.Enough said
http://www.sunjourna...s/story/1013095
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#33 Joyrider

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 07:58 AM

Really Interesting Article / information wibskey, thanks!

I started hunting in the boom of the 80's and am afraid until right now, I was guilty of the same thing - assuming that is what our deer heard should be like.

Well, since booms / crashes are natural, maybe we'll have a boom soon and I'll actually get a deer! ;-)

Rob
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#34 wibskey

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 08:26 AM

Yes sir they were unhealthy . That is why we would have to cut 3"-4" of fat off their backs before butchering every year.Those years the coyotes were tearing them apart for sport and not even eating them. One lake we visit had over 40 killed alone on the ice one winter and 5 in one day of which a few bites of the stomach was taken , two not even touched and the rest left for the crows.
There was a report on that also at the time about the coyotes killing them for sport but that seems to be forgotten.
Since you love reports so much find the one where they sprayed the pole lines here for brush control to find out later what they used was poison to some animals deer included.That spray was not used on the mainland. HUMMMMMMM. Friend in johnstown who worked in the woods at the time still talks about all the deer dead he found the following spring after the spraying.

Bottom line is we can support right now double what we have maybe triple but that is not going to happen anytime soon.


I'm not going to dig up the reports... They been posted here numerous time. Deer were shown to be in VERY poor health before the crash and hunters didn't want to increase harvest because they wanted it to stay that way forever.

I was in Cape Breton at the time of the crash and I've never seen or heard of mass murders by coyotes. So my anecdotal evidence is just as relevant as yours.

I've mentioned the spraying on the site before and someone put it rest pretty quickly. I don't know what to believe there either but until can provide some solid evidence one way or the other we'll have to put a pin in it.

Read that article and consider all of the points that they mention that contributed to the boom. Small farms, small gardens, more private woodlots, etc. Now think about Cape Breton in the '80s compared to today. It's much different. It used to be you could go just about anywhere and find some nice low growth for rabbit hunting and now all of those areas as grown and I can't say I've noticed many to replace them. Most of the old abandoned farms that I hunted in the '80s are now grown over and the apple trees no longer produce. A lot has changed on the Island.

Bottom line is you guys seem to think the coyotes are responsible for all of your woes. It's short sighted and misses the bigger picture. Coyotes are certainly having an impact but they're not the only predator on the island. There are plenty of those with 2 legs. You keep mentioning the deer in your backyard... you must live in a different Glace Bay than the one I know because EVERY deer (or moose even) that I've ever heard of in Glace Bay ended up in a freezer long before it ended up in a coyote's belly.

Edit: Referring to the article you linked. The author is editor of the Northwoods Sporting Journal. He is also a Maine Guide, co-host of a weekly radio program "Maine Outdoors" So another deer hunter screaming for a bounty. That's a shocker.
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#35 3macs1

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 08:27 AM

Another one for you. Note surplus killing??
Interesting is now you know what takes place in my back yard and we are all a bunch of jackers killing all the deer.I might look like a big indian but I am not( and no comments from you bubba682 or wardie on that lol)
You are the man .Funny I don't remember seeing you here.But that is a good thing :) No not much has changed in my little hunting world since the 80's, same woods, same brooks, pulp cut every so many years like it has been for 100 years.Same fields farmed and hayed many by the same people.Just little to no deer.
http://www.sportsman...68/Default.aspx
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#36 Trapper Gary

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 08:28 AM

Coyotes were taking about 9% of the deer herd in the study areas in CB. The study also showed that the deer on the island are now much healthier than they were before the crash/coyotes. So I guess that relentless harassing is paying off.


Here is the wind shield management assesement, preliminery report:

I have been driving a lobster pick up truck through out the province for the past three years. After this last year cash for coyote program, this is what I have noticed.

Before-few dead deer lying around the high way. Often seen dead coyotes.

This year, lots of dead deer, sometimes lying there for 4 days. One 2 days at least next to school. No dead coyotes on the roads.

As a side note the coyote education program seems to be working. I often see the same walkers now carring beater sticks, some with sharp spikes in the ends.
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#37 3macs1

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 08:52 AM

Here is the wind shield management assesement, preliminery report:

I have been driving a lobster pick up truck through out the province for the past three years. After this last year cash for coyote program, this is what I have noticed.

Before-few dead deer lying around the high way. Often seen dead coyotes.

This year, lots of dead deer, sometimes lying there for 4 days. One 2 days at least next to school. No dead coyotes on the roads.

As a side note the coyote education program seems to be working. I often see the same walkers now carring beater sticks, some with sharp spikes in the ends.


Yes CT but Wibskey will tell you to wait to the fall until every female coyote has their 15 pups to fill in double for the
good work the trappers did. :rolleyes:
Take care. Have to run and do something real scary. Fill the car with gas and pick up some grub.
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#38 wibskey

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 09:01 AM

Here is the wind shield management assesement, preliminery report:

I have been driving a lobster pick up truck through out the province for the past three years. After this last year cash for coyote program, this is what I have noticed.

Before-few dead deer lying around the high way. Often seen dead coyotes.

This year, lots of dead deer, sometimes lying there for 4 days. One 2 days at least next to school. No dead coyotes on the roads.

As a side note the coyote education program seems to be working. I often see the same walkers now carring beater sticks, some with sharp spikes in the ends.


So the authority on whether or not the incentive worked is your tally of road kill?

This year I've seen just as many deer dead on the highway as previous years and more coyotes. Just saying.

PS. This is the wrong thread to be touting the incentive in. It was put in place to deal with coyote encounters remember? This is a thread about how someone's dog got attacked in town (the second dog). How IS the incentive working? I would say it's not working AT ALL.

Edit: Fixed a line that seemed overly harsh when it wasn't my intention.

Edited by wibskey, 05 May 2011 - 01:56 PM.

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#39 wibskey

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 09:04 AM

Another one for you. Note surplus killing??
Interesting is now you know what takes place in my back yard.
You are the man .Funny I don't remember seeing you here.But that is a good thing :) No not much has changed in my little hunting world since the 80's, same woods, same brooks, pulp cut every so many years like it has been for 100 years.Same fields farmed and hayed many by the same people.
http://www.sportsman...68/Default.aspx


Funny, you must not talk to many people in Glace Bay. It's no secret what goes on there.

You do understand your little patch of paradise doesn't make up the whole island right?

You keep linking to articles speculating what is/will happen in Maine and ignoring the studies that were done right here in NS. Is that because you don't like what our studies say? Seems so.
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#40 wibskey

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 09:08 AM

Yes CT but Wibskey will tell you to wait to the fall until every female coyote has their 15 pups to fill in double for the
good work the trappers did. :rolleyes:
Take care. Have to run and do something real scary. Fill the car with gas and pick up some grub.


Actually I'll tell you that that information is about as relevant as the number of deer you see in your backyard.

Deer pellet counts were up last spring and hunter success was up again this fall... before the incentive. Who should we credit that too?
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