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Cree Nation Urged To Switch To Non-Lead


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#1 Ian

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 07:29 AM


Cree health officials urge hunters to switch to steel shot, abandon lead

Health board putting pressure on federal gov't to ban lead shot outright

By Susan Bell
CBC News
Posted: May 09, 2017 9:29 AM CT
Last Updated: May 10, 2017 12:57 PM CT

As many Quebec Cree are out celebrating one of the most important holidays of the year — the annual spring goose hunt — public health officials are spreading an important message: change your shot from lead to steel.

Paul Linton, the assistant director of public health for the Cree Board of Health and Social Services of James Bay, which launched the public education campaign earlier this year, says the use of lead shot is a particular concern in Cree and other northern communities, because of the amount of traditional food the population is eating.

"Probably 50 per cent of the food that is given to the children is harvested. The amount of lead going in is high. That is where it becomes a concern for us," Linton said.

Statistics from the CBHSSJB show Cree children are consuming traditional food between two and four times a week.
According to the World Health Organization, lead poisoning is particularly harmful to children, affecting the development of the brain and nervous system.

Linton says it's an issue that's affecting First Nations communities right across the country, and the board of health is hoping to put pressure on the federal government to eventually ban lead shot outright.

In the late 1990s, the federal government banned lead shot for longer range hunting of migratory game birds, but Linton says the Cree are still able to use lead shot because of their style of hunting.

Steel shot can cost more than double what lead shot does, which Linton says is a large part of people's resistance to making the switch.

"Food insecurity is a big issue in all First Nations. So money is an issue. So to get traditional food, they are going to take the cheapest way possible to get traditional food, so that means right now lead shot."

Linton says for larger game, it's important to not eat the meat that is four inches around an entry wound, because lead shot breaks into microscopic bits that can only be seen with X-ray.

Feds should 'get their act together'

The campaign includes posters in the communities and outreach to local hunting supply stores in the region to convince them to at least carry steel shot, which is not always the case right now.
Linton says they're also working with the Cree Trappers Association on how to get information to hunters about making the shift from heritage guns, which are passed down from generation-to-generation and can't handle steel shot.

"My whole family is using steel now," said Fred Tomatuk, vice president of the Cree Trappers Association.

"We don't see a reduction in production and also we are very cautious about the health issues surrounding [lead]."

Linton says the biggest obstacle remains the attitude of the federal government.

"At one point the federal government had enough brains to realize that lead shouldn't be in paint any more," he said.

"At one time they had enough brains to realize it shouldn't be in solder in the water systems. And then they had enough brains to figure out it shouldn't be in leaded gas, but yet they haven't figured out that lead poisoning comes through hunting, and is detrimental to the First Nations."

Linton said the working group is also starting a letter writing campaign to put pressure on the federal government to "get their act together" and put in place a complete ban on the sale and importation of lead shells.

--------------------------------------

Read the CBC article here:

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...steel-1.4106230

 


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#2 ALW

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 01:53 PM

I had no idea that the Cree, or any First Nation, had been exempted from the Federal government/North American ban on the use of lead shot for hunting waterfowl when it was implemented years ago. Even now any potential lead shot ban now being considered seems to be focused on potential exposure/toxicity to the hunters and community members, and not out of concern for introducing lead into the environment as a whole.

 

I'm surprised that there were any exceptions to the original North American wide lead shot ban. Even more so that groups opposed to the lead shot ban that were trying to fight it didn't use the Cree's exemption as ammunition. Assuming it was general knowledge? Perhaps they did?

 

For the record I supported the lead shot ban for waterfowl hunting, and was a hard-core bird hunter when it came in effect. I've likely only bought my migratory bird license 5 or 6 years since the ban mind you, although not strictly as a result of the lead shot ban.        


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#3 First Nation HUNTER

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 08:05 AM

1: "In the late 1990s, the federal government banned lead shot for longer range hunting of migratory game birds, but Linton says the Cree are still able to use lead shot because of their style of hunting."


Also seems steel is hard to come by as well, when all the stores are selling mainly lead..
"The campaign includes posters in the communities and outreach to local hunting supply stores in the region to convince them to at least carry steel shot, which is not always the case right now"

Some of these areas are quite remote, So its not like driving to the next crappy tire across the bridge to get some ammo if its not available to them.
 
Main point I see, is to try an get people to swap over to steel.. for the health of the children who are most susceptible/at risk to lead poising...


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#4 3macs1

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 11:47 AM

 

1: "In the late 1990s, the federal government banned lead shot for longer range hunting of migratory game birds, but Linton says the Cree are still able to use lead shot because of their style of hunting." 

Also seems steel is hard to come by as well, when all the stores are selling mainly lead..
"The campaign includes posters in the communities and outreach to local hunting supply stores in the region to convince them to at least carry steel shot, which is not always the case right now"

Some of these areas are quite remote, So its not like driving to the next crappy tire across the bridge to get some ammo if its not available to them.
 
Main point I see, is to try an get people to swap over to steel.. for the health of the children who are most susceptible/at risk to lead poising...

You are way off on this one my friend on the lead vs steel, we are not talking target loads here or small gaages. Let's establish one thing up front. I could not care less if one is first nation, man. woman, what color their skin is etc, etc.

I reload shotgun shells and have for over 40 years and those that use them are Hunters or Target shooters plain and simple

 

So here is what gets me about this write up.It makes no sense

Lead shells for shooting snow geese would be just about impossible to buy today anywhere forget remote areas since they would be mainly no.2,  and BB which pretty much disappeared when the steel shot became mandatory

 

Most hunters would use a 12ga or 10ga for goose hunting, I assume so then again where does one buy lead today in the sizes for geese

On the other hand STEEL for geese is on every shelf including mom and pop stores so very easy to get and even cheaper in those sizes vs lead if one could even find a old box of say no.2 lead or BB regardless if remote area or not.

The manufacturer's make steel shot in these requirements and most don't even produce a lead equal

 Style of hunting I again assume they pass shoot as do most who hunt snow geese so nothing special but again today's steel with the right choke can kill birds out to where the old lead could years ago so why lead??? and the biggy for me where are they getting it

None of this makes sense to me other than they must have a truck load of old lead rounds left over since the 90's and using them up since lead in the required shot size is impossible to buy today and even reloading not easy but do able if you have the old style wads

What am i missing here 

Just an example Federal no2 shot which would be my goose load, BB the same

All offerings are steel

https://federalpremi.../shotshell.aspx

 Cheers


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#5 First Nation HUNTER

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 01:56 PM

You are way off on this one my friend on the lead vs steel ...
So here is what gets me about this write up. It makes no sense
Lead shells for shooting snow geese would be just about impossible to buy today anywhere forget remote areas since they would be mainly no.2, and BB which pretty much disappeared when the steel shot became mandatory

... if one could even find a old box of say no.2 lead or BB regardless if remote area or not.

What am i missing here
Just an example Federal no2 shot which would be my goose load, BB the same
All offerings are steel
https://federalpremi.../shotshell.aspx
Cheers


Hey 3Macs..

Last time I was in Canadian tire they had a "very good supply" of 2/34in No.2 lead.
12_2.jpg

Also cabelas stocks both BB and #2 in " "Challenger Sporting Lead Shotshells - 12 Gauge"
image.jpg

So its still readily available.
(Both BB/#2 lead are used by people for coyote (esp.older 12ga guns)..That's what I have for my old Win. model 12) ;)

Lots of #4 still out there as well.

Thanks
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"If they run, they'll just die tired"

browning_sig-exp_zpsa59d45fb.png

- Browning BLR PG, .300wsm
- Savage Model 111, .270win
- Savage Model 11, .243
- My trusty 1958 Winchester model 12, 12ga
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#6 KEVIN

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 02:23 PM

When we were up to Moncton, I remember one of the two box stores having #2 lead in stock....not sure which one tho ?

...I'm assuming it was Bass Pro cuz they definitely had the best stocked ammo shelves out of the pair !!


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#7 First Nation HUNTER

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 02:26 PM

Im sure BP has them as well... Or so id assume.

Still great for older shotguns for yotes...so still very use full outside of waterfowl..
(and cheap to shoot to boot) :)
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"If they run, they'll just die tired"

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- Savage Model 11, .243
- My trusty 1958 Winchester model 12, 12ga
- Limbsaver dz30, Easton FMJ and a muzzy

#8 KEVIN

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 03:24 PM

Big lead shot was always my favorite goto rabbit loads. Less pellets, more hitting power and had that alder cutting ability if needed ( it usually was..lol)


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If you take your kids hunting,.....You won't have to go hunting for your kids.....KS/85

#9 3macs1

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 05:30 PM

When we were up to Moncton, I remember one of the two box stores having #2 lead in stock....not sure which one tho ?

...I'm assuming it was Bass Pro cuz they definitely had the best stocked ammo shelves out of the pair !!

Challenger by any chance Kevin


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#10 3macs1

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 05:40 PM

Hey 3Macs..

Last time I was in Canadian tire they had a "very good supply" of 2/34in No.2 lead.
12_2.jpg

Also cabelas stocks both BB and #2 in " "Challenger Sporting Lead Shotshells - 12 Gauge"
image.jpg

So its still readily available.
(Both BB/#2 lead are used by people for coyote (esp.older 12ga guns)..That's what I have for my old Win. model 12) ;)

Lots of #4 still out there as well.

Thanks

Ok. Now I see what is going on. You know challenger also owns imperial and started to produce a so called vintage look imperial shell in 2014 which is really nothing more than a renamed challenger that is what you show in the crappy tire listing

So they took it to the level of reintroducing no. 2 and BB and going after that small market. Smart I guess on that part since believe me BB and no2 lead dried up for many years around here after the 90's

So we have one supplier vs the shelves full of all manufacturers steel loads for geese

 Still not making sense to me unless challenger maybe selling these by the pallet as they do to clubs with target shot especially in remote locations since they are located in Ste-Justine-de-Newton, Qc and the cree are in quebec.

So support your own province etc Then I could see it

 Also 2 3/4" would not be my choice for snow geese and would think most hunters would use 3" but then again 2 3/4" lead may be fine

 Cheers


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#11 KEVIN

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 06:04 PM

You know what Joe...they just might have been those vintage Imperial shells come to think of it !

Come July 8th, I'll find out for sure what Challenger has for big stuff...there's a Challenger sponsored sporting clays shoot at Nova. Owner and reps will be on site.


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#12 3macs1

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 06:44 PM

You know what Joe...they just might have been those vintage Imperial shells come to think of it !

Come July 8th, I'll find out for sure what Challenger has for big stuff...there's a Challenger sponsored sporting clays shoot at Nova. Owner and reps will be on site.

Thanks Kevin. I would say but don't buy them for the old imperial smell it is not there sadly :(


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#13 3macs1

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 06:59 PM

1: "In the late 1990s, the federal government banned lead shot for longer range hunting of migratory game birds, but Linton says the Cree are still able to use lead shot because of their style of hunting."


Also seems steel is hard to come by as well, when all the stores are selling mainly lead..
"The campaign includes posters in the communities and outreach to local hunting supply stores in the region to convince them to at least carry steel shot, which is not always the case right now"

Some of these areas are quite remote, So its not like driving to the next crappy tire across the bridge to get some ammo if its not available to them.
 
Main point I see, is to try an get people to swap over to steel.. for the health of the children who are most susceptible/at risk to lead poising...

With a bit of digging it appears to be a bit deeper than any of this. Now I understand looks like the old feds screwed up at the time

 

Consultation with First Nations of the Mushkegowuk area by the C\A/S on other migratory gamebird harvesting issues has also been limited. The relationship between the CWS and Mushkegowuk Council (the regional First Nation political organization) has been strained because in April 1995, a CWS representative physically barred the Mushkegowuk Council chair- Mandatory IJse of Non-Toxic Shotshe// 29 person from attending a meeting between Canadian and US officials concerning amendments to the 1916 Migratory Bird TreaU Act (Anonymous, 1995; Phelan, 1995). The chairperson after getting past the C\ lS representative was only able to point out that First Nations have not been adequately consulted about these negotiations, and that the CWS staff cannot speak on behalf of Canadian First Nations (Archibald, 1995:2). 

 

Also interesting what was in this 98 report on the cost

One possible solution is to have Mushkegowuk Council purchase steel shot directly from an ammunition manufacturer and then sell the steel shot at cost to First Nation members. In this way the new ammunition would be made available and affordable to people of the region, that is, there is no mark-up of price. A good price would likely be secured from the ammunition manufacturer because Mushkegowuk Council could guarantee large annual orders of steel shot. Time would be needed to implement this plan or a similar plan. Another important reason why a phase-in period is needed 

 

I would bet the farm this happened but for lead shot :)

 Cheers


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#14 First Nation HUNTER

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 07:06 PM

Ammunition is only part of the equation..Fella in the article is using an old single cooey..

I don't know the econmics of the area this applies to,
but purchasing a new "steel capable firearm" may be hard for some, especially in remote areas.
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"If they run, they'll just die tired"

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#15 3macs1

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 12:01 AM

Ammunition is only part of the equation..Fella in the article is using an old single cooey..

I don't know the econmics of the area this applies to,
but purchasing a new "steel capable firearm" may be hard for some, especially in remote areas.

 

Cooey?? How about a modern baikal mp-18 with a 3" chamber, fixed mod choke and made to shoot steel

 Cooey's don't have stocks with cut outs or fore ends like that pic

 Cheers


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#16 First Nation HUNTER

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 06:48 AM

I stand corrected...
better wear my glasses next time .. (damn these old eyes..) :)

Where can you get these singles and chokes... I think I want one..
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"If they run, they'll just die tired"

browning_sig-exp_zpsa59d45fb.png

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- Savage Model 111, .270win
- Savage Model 11, .243
- My trusty 1958 Winchester model 12, 12ga
- Limbsaver dz30, Easton FMJ and a muzzy

#17 3macs1

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 12:30 PM

I stand corrected...
better wear my glasses next time .. (damn these old eyes..) :)

Where can you get these singles and chokes... I think I want one..

Know all about the eyes :)

They are not much of a gun in fact pretty cheap IMO.

I know dante sports sells them for like $200 cd and you guessed it in quebec :)

They don't have choke tubes just a fixed modified choke so they can shoot steel. I maybe wrong but I think a chrome lined barrel also

I stand corrected also. I was not aware challenger started pumping out the old no.2 and BB lead loads

 Just know they were impossible to find even a few years ago especially in canada 

take care

 Joe


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#18 First Nation HUNTER

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 12:33 PM

I found it cool (Nostalgia kicks in the older we get ;)) to see the "imperial" box on the shelf..

All the best to you as well...
FNH
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"If they run, they'll just die tired"

browning_sig-exp_zpsa59d45fb.png

- Browning BLR PG, .300wsm
- Savage Model 111, .270win
- Savage Model 11, .243
- My trusty 1958 Winchester model 12, 12ga
- Limbsaver dz30, Easton FMJ and a muzzy




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